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 When will we be able to stop coding specifically for IE?
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Daniel
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 4:46 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

Microsoft officials stated back in May that version 6 (SP 1) is the last standalone version of Internet Explorer which will be released:

Microsoft TechNet wrote:
Q: When / will there be the next version of IE?

A: As part of the OS, IE will continue to evolve, but there will be no future standalone installations. IE6 SP1 is the final standalone installation.


So, does this mean we can gradually stop coding specifically for IE, hoping that browsers such as Mozilla/Firebird, Safari or Opera will take over and be the majority of browsers rather than the minority right now?

I for one relish the day when web designers can code according to the W3C's recommendations and not even have to test in several different browsers, because it'll work properly in all of them. I think there is no reason why a particular browser should decide how we code - only one organisation should make that kind of decision (namely the W3C).

But then maybe I'm being too optimistic and this will never happen... Question

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Darren
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:25 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

I don't really see how this will make much difference. The reason IE is used by the majority now is because it is pre-installed with Windows and the majority of pc owners just accept that IE is the program they have to use to browse the web. If its further integrated in to the OS this just enforces this mentality Sad

In terms of there not being any further standalone versions, that is certainly the case for the Mac. Microsoft have said that they will not be developing IE for OSX anymore. They say its so they can concentrate on programs such as Office, but its no coincidence Apple now have their own browser preinstalled with OSX, a position once held by IE. Wink

Hopefully the browsers will eventually become more and more compliant as CSS matures. But then there will just be something else introduced and the whole cycle of incompatibility will start again....
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Daniel
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 5:33 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

Maybe the problem lies with education? If the average computer user can be educated to update their browser on a regular basis (at least once a year - granted this isn't easy with dialup but as time goes by fewer and fewer people will be using dialup), problems like we have with IE 6, which is way behind everyone else with CSS, wouldn't happen.

Also my view is that if you're going to bundle a browser with an operating system you should be prepared to release regular updates to keep up with the latest developments in web design, and also provide means for the average user to update easily. Microsoft kind of forced most Windows users to use IE, but they didn't provide any "after-sales support": ancient bugs still aren't fixed because there are very few updates. On the other hand, I think Apple will be more likely to do this job better than Microsoft Smile.

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adam
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 21, 2003 6:38 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

I think the way things are going the only way to get major functionality updates for IE (e.g. support for new HTML/CSS versions) will be to buy a windows upgrade. This, of course, can only make things worse for designers - since fewer people will be willing to upgrade. Though, that relies on people being stubborn enough to not switch to a different browser.

I think most people don't very much care which browser they use, but maybe if they realise they can get more for less they'd use a good browser instead - so I agree with the point about education.

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jayant
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 4:50 am (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

What if they think, that the maker of the site didn't do it up properly and hence everything looks a mess Smile

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Daniel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 7:41 am (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

Again that's an education problem. If people can be educated to know that just because a site doesn't look good in their browser, it's not necessarily the author's fault, then we'll be half way there. Smile

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Justin
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:18 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

IE are going to update their browsers, they just won't offer new releases, IE Version Increases but they will continue to add new features, in the forthcoming Internet Explorer Service Pack pop-up stopping is just one of the features thats going to be added.
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Daniel
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 22, 2003 12:22 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

While Microsoft have announced that they are going to release an update with popup blocking soon, the rate at which they have released updates is still unacceptable. IE 6 is way behind everyone else (not only in terms of features but in terms of rendering & support of newish technologies such as PNG).

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Teddy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:18 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

IE is WAY behind, in fact, I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the fact that it has made almost no development since IE4 in 1997. View a web page in it, it looks almost the same as in IE6. Almost, luckily, they have done SOME work.

Personally, when I code web pages, I don't code specifically for ANY browser, and I will be damned the day I listen to anyone asking why I don't code for the "majority."

A properly coded XHTML/CSS page will look generally the same in any browser, usually including IE, as long as more advanced CSS isn't used.

Now, all I have to wait for is the day I stop seeing websites telling me that my browser is too old, and that I need to download IE4. Sorry, but last I checked, FreeBSD and Linux don't run IE, and if you coded your site right, then my Firebird shouldn't have any trouble rendering it.
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Justin
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:27 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

So if you were a business, and 95% of your target customer base use IE, you're saying if you had a choice of

A) Coding for IE but doesn't look good in Mozilla
B) Coding in Standards that don't work in IE but look good in Mozilla.

You'd choose option B so therefore you would seriously affect the profits and peformance of your business just to get one over on Microsoft?

I wouldn't, and anyone with any business sense wouldn't.
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Daniel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:30 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

I think Teddy's solution to is to build all sites using XHTML/CSS but keeping to basic CSS in order to make sure it works the same in all browsers. Arrow No hacks but still works in most browsers Smile

Shame that as soon as you use CSS for positioning every browser does what it feels like Sad

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Teddy
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 4:31 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

Exactly. Though I'm not fond of it, the only way to keep things compatible, is to keep clean code (obviously) and don't use anything that other browsers don't like.

CSS positioning for an example.. IE doesn't handle it well, but Mozilla does. Simple, don't use it, find another way.

It's a shame IE didn't have a better rendering engine, because I think we'd be seeing a lot more interesting websites by now to take full advantage of CSS.
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adam
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 5:28 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

Teddy wrote:
CSS positioning for an example.. IE doesn't handle it well, but Mozilla does. Simple, don't use it, find another way.


Daniel wrote:
Shame that as soon as you use CSS for positioning every browser does what it feels like Sad


I've never found that to be the case, but then again I've never done anything very complex with it. A good example of a complex CSS-positioned site is wired.com - it looks the same in anything but really old (or really simple) browsers.

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Daniel
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:27 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

I think this (found in their CSS - it's in there a few times) is what I call a hack:

Code:
  voice-family: "\"}\""; voice-family:inherit;


Wink

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adam
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 6:47 pm (14 years ago) Reply with QuoteBack to Top

hmm...and what does it do exactly?

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